Comments on: Plato– Apology http://phil201.umwblogs.org/2008/08/19/becoming-an-author-on-this-blog/ Γνωθι Σεαυτον Thu, 08 Jan 2009 17:36:26 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.5 By: hgmclean http://phil201.umwblogs.org/2008/08/19/becoming-an-author-on-this-blog/#comment-13 hgmclean Tue, 09 Sep 2008 23:13:37 +0000 http://phil201.umwblogs.org/?p=32#comment-13 Well, like I said before, Socrates was resigned to death. If he hadn't told all those people he was wiser than them because he knew that he knew nothing (ha, paradox), what point would he have made? What impression would he have made on them? He did what he had to do to get his point across, there was no other way. He was almost a pathological truth-teller (except he had good reason behind it). I agree with "Noodles" that he was much more worried about being honest than being a fraud (or dying for that matter). Integrity doesn't die. As far as dying cutting off someone's ability to change, you also have to remember that the pupils Socrates had carried on his ideas, and Plato has even given us enough that we have it now and we're still learning from Socrates and letting him change our worlds. And dying in the name of self-examination was the most important thing and was the most valuable lesson Socrates taught. Well, like I said before, Socrates was resigned to death. If he hadn’t told all those people he was wiser than them because he knew that he knew nothing (ha, paradox), what point would he have made? What impression would he have made on them? He did what he had to do to get his point across, there was no other way. He was almost a pathological truth-teller (except he had good reason behind it). I agree with “Noodles” that he was much more worried about being honest than being a fraud (or dying for that matter). Integrity doesn’t die. As far as dying cutting off someone’s ability to change, you also have to remember that the pupils Socrates had carried on his ideas, and Plato has even given us enough that we have it now and we’re still learning from Socrates and letting him change our worlds. And dying in the name of self-examination was the most important thing and was the most valuable lesson Socrates taught.

]]> By: mhenness http://phil201.umwblogs.org/2008/08/19/becoming-an-author-on-this-blog/#comment-12 mhenness Tue, 09 Sep 2008 22:50:13 +0000 http://phil201.umwblogs.org/?p=32#comment-12 I think by accepting death in the Apology and in Crito Socrates was showing that death, to him was not the worse thing, to him exile, not questioning and challenging Athens was worse than death. He died as he lived. In some ways I think death is not the worse thing, living a life that is boring, that doesn't accomplish anything that doesn't change the world is. But then again with death comes the end of the ability to change. So I don't know. I think by accepting death in the Apology and in Crito Socrates was showing that death, to him was not the worse thing, to him exile, not questioning and challenging Athens was worse than death. He died as he lived. In some ways I think death is not the worse thing, living a life that is boring, that doesn’t accomplish anything that doesn’t change the world is. But then again with death comes the end of the ability to change. So I don’t know.

]]> By: NooDles http://phil201.umwblogs.org/2008/08/19/becoming-an-author-on-this-blog/#comment-11 NooDles Tue, 09 Sep 2008 20:30:16 +0000 http://phil201.umwblogs.org/?p=32#comment-11 I don't think Socrates was worried about finding a way to connect with the comman man. To him they were all foolish and knew nothing. He was just worried about being honest regardless of what that honesty brought upon him. He was an old man and death was on his doorstep either way so why not use this opportunity in front of all the polis to share his views. Death was not at all a real concern to him. I don’t think Socrates was worried about finding a way to connect with the comman man. To him they were all foolish and knew nothing. He was just worried about being honest regardless of what that honesty brought upon him. He was an old man and death was on his doorstep either way so why not use this opportunity in front of all the polis to share his views. Death was not at all a real concern to him.

]]> By: Thebigenchilada http://phil201.umwblogs.org/2008/08/19/becoming-an-author-on-this-blog/#comment-10 Thebigenchilada Mon, 08 Sep 2008 19:24:15 +0000 http://phil201.umwblogs.org/?p=32#comment-10 More people would have been able to side with him, though, if he had revealed to them that they didn't know anything in a way where he didn't blatantly say "i'm wiser than you." People naturally set themselves against that. A truly wise person would have found a way to connect with the common man and bring him to his own level. And he wouldn't have had to die. More people would have been able to side with him, though, if he had revealed to them that they didn’t know anything in a way where he didn’t blatantly say “i’m wiser than you.” People naturally set themselves against that. A truly wise person would have found a way to connect with the common man and bring him to his own level.

And he wouldn’t have had to die.

]]> By: hgmclean http://phil201.umwblogs.org/2008/08/19/becoming-an-author-on-this-blog/#comment-9 hgmclean Sun, 07 Sep 2008 19:22:06 +0000 http://phil201.umwblogs.org/?p=32#comment-9 Yes, he was resigned to death. As for arrogance, he was being much less arrogant than the other people in the courtroom supposing to know so much when in actuality they knew nothing. Yes, he was resigned to death. As for arrogance, he was being much less arrogant than the other people in the courtroom supposing to know so much when in actuality they knew nothing.

]]> By: Thebigenchilada http://phil201.umwblogs.org/2008/08/19/becoming-an-author-on-this-blog/#comment-8 Thebigenchilada Sat, 06 Sep 2008 22:47:07 +0000 http://phil201.umwblogs.org/?p=32#comment-8 I'm thinking Socrates was resigned to death before the trial even began. He didn't have to grovel, I don't think, in order to have won though. Socrates could have been a little less arrogant in saying he was the wisest, and instead gently shown people that there was a better way to live and they wouldn't have sentenced him to death. But sometimes it takes a martyr to get people's attention, I guess. I’m thinking Socrates was resigned to death before the trial even began. He didn’t have to grovel, I don’t think, in order to have won though. Socrates could have been a little less arrogant in saying he was the wisest, and instead gently shown people that there was a better way to live and they wouldn’t have sentenced him to death. But sometimes it takes a martyr to get people’s attention, I guess.

]]> By: eegbert http://phil201.umwblogs.org/2008/08/19/becoming-an-author-on-this-blog/#comment-7 eegbert Sat, 06 Sep 2008 00:22:25 +0000 http://phil201.umwblogs.org/?p=32#comment-7 You're right though that he would have been outraged by the comparison. o well. you have to wonder whether he'd have appreciated people studying him in great detail; he might have, or maybe not You’re right though that he would have been outraged by the comparison. o well. you have to wonder whether he’d have appreciated people studying him in great detail; he might have, or maybe not

]]> By: hgmclean http://phil201.umwblogs.org/2008/08/19/becoming-an-author-on-this-blog/#comment-6 hgmclean Fri, 05 Sep 2008 15:24:39 +0000 http://phil201.umwblogs.org/?p=32#comment-6 Fair enough. In reflection I did in fact think of those, too. Fair enough. In reflection I did in fact think of those, too.

]]> By: eegbert http://phil201.umwblogs.org/2008/08/19/becoming-an-author-on-this-blog/#comment-5 eegbert Thu, 04 Sep 2008 19:46:26 +0000 http://phil201.umwblogs.org/?p=32#comment-5 I know he was vehemently against any sort of worship of himself or his ideas, nor did he have magical powers, but there are definite parallels. Man teaches new way of thinking contrary to tradition, is condemned by traditional authorities who are afraid of his new ideas/way of thinking, is sentenced to death by said authorities, and willingly accepts execution with only limited attempt to avoid it. Add to that the fact that he wrote no texts himself, instead leaving that to his disciples, in this case mostly Plato. Come on, you gotta admit some similarities dude. I know he was vehemently against any sort of worship of himself or his ideas, nor did he have magical powers, but there are definite parallels. Man teaches new way of thinking contrary to tradition, is condemned by traditional authorities who are afraid of his new ideas/way of thinking, is sentenced to death by said authorities, and willingly accepts execution with only limited attempt to avoid it. Add to that the fact that he wrote no texts himself, instead leaving that to his disciples, in this case mostly Plato. Come on, you gotta admit some similarities dude.

]]> By: mhenness http://phil201.umwblogs.org/2008/08/19/becoming-an-author-on-this-blog/#comment-4 mhenness Thu, 04 Sep 2008 16:58:55 +0000 http://phil201.umwblogs.org/?p=32#comment-4 maybe we're all just following Socratic tradition and do not want to pass ourselves off as wiser than we actually are. maybe we’re all just following Socratic tradition and do not want to pass ourselves off as wiser than we actually are.

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